the big issue interviews tim mcshane

1. Yea - it would be good to get some info about how you're breaking into the UK - are you targeting schools or individuals or both. Has the idea caught on yet here? Even if it's just one or two or a few schools, I'd Iike a stat on that.

Schools are the hotbed for safety information at the moment mainly because they hit on parents as well as children but we have to go wider than this into the local community. There are several issues that concern me about what is happening in schools. The approach has been to put the equipment into schools and worry about the safety aspect later. This is not good for teachers or children.

Bradford LEA has made an excellent start by purchasing a copy of Parry Aftab's book "The Parent's Guide to Protecting Your Children in Cyberspace" for each of it's ICT co-ordinators. All proceeds from this book go towards the work of Cyberangels. Parry is our CEO and goes all over the world speaking about online safety for children and adults.

One of our members, Sharon O'Hara, has done incredibly well in pushing this agenda and formulating polices with the LEA to initiate positive change. Superintendent Stuart Hyde has also been instrumental in pushing forward the cause of online safety and education.

Our presence in the press has been confined to articles in Readers Digest, Elle, That's Life etc. as well as the interviews on ITN and BskyB but we will be focusing much more on supplying the press with information and making ourselves available.

Because we are a global organization and recognize that cybercrime is a global event coming down in individual countries is a gradual affair. The whole of the Cyberangels has been revamped though and is due to be released at the beginning of February. The UK will have it's own section dealing with UK specific things but it has to be understood in the global context to make any sense.

2. Can you mention any cases which you've been involved in which have led to arrests/convictions (anywhere in the world.)

Yes and no! Information on illegal activities are passed on to law enforcement agencies but they do not always feedback to us the result. I can tell you of a few cases in which I have been involved.

Cyberstalking - A woman in America had been sent e-mails and messages via Internet and was convinced the guy had infiltrated her machine. She knew him, most victims know their attacker, and we even had the residential address. The police in the woman's state couldn't handle the case as there was no cyberstalking charge on their statute books so she asked me to do something in the UK. The police here were incredibly helpful considering their lack of resources and the guy was arrested and cautioned. It was during this that we found out the police actually get charged by BT among other telephone companies for tracing Internet users suspected of breaking the law. Appalling but on the other hand BT is a private company and time is money to them. I hope the new Hi-Tech squad being set up in April might get some special concessions, maybe free Internet access? [more about BT charges to the UK Police...]

Paedophile Activity - You would be shocked to see how prevalent this is. In terms of whole Internet use it is very small but those who are engaged in it are often experienced Internet users, becoming much better organized and are out there. Forget the image of the man with puppy or bag of sweets, these people are often well educated, have access to a computer and Internet, and need to be stopped.

One incident recently was a group of paedophiles who were working a community on the MSN communities. It had been set up for children 10 - 13 year olds but had been infiltrated. This guy was inviting children to his site to look at pictures of him nude, not a pleasant site, nor were the things he was doing. He'd then contact them via email and begin to entice them. After verifying the claims we reported it to the police and the guy was traced. I believe Interpol was handling it as there were several pedophiles in the group and several police officers as well!

You have to understand that these sort of people, often loners, will take months or years to build up information on a child whether it is from forums like this one or chat lines. They will sit for hours and wait for any snippet of information they can glean about a potential victim. They will then use this information to lure the child.

People should be very careful about putting pictures of children online. Some paedophiles pick up these innocent pictures and attach fantasy stories to about how they would lure the child. We advise people who want to put pictures for families to enjoy to use some of the free picture storage space from companies like Yahoo where they have password access which they could distribute to members of the family. It's a sick old world.

Also - Man put away via Cyberangels.

3. What are the difficulties in policing the Internet for this kind of harmful material/and criminals?

It's huge and there are not enough police to cope with it. That is where global organizations like Cyberangels come in. We have over 8000 members all over the world and growing all the time. We are like a worldwide neigborhood watch scheme, which reports criminal activities to the local (national) police so they can focus their resources. They are the professionals; we are concerned members of the public that want to be able to support them by passing the information on. The reason we do this work is to keep people safe online and to make surfing an enjoyable experience for all.

With paedophilia, much of this material is contained on servers in Eastern Europe where the law is, to say the least, stretched in time and resources although they do an excellent job with what they have. Paedophiles also put the material on free sites where they cannot be traced and the connections are fast. Sites are only up for a day sometimes hours. The people who promote this material shift their sites about on a regular basis so you never know exactly where they are from day to day. Secret bulletin boards, messages, untraceable email accounts all help these people continue their vile trade.

Cyberstalkers tend to be much more straightforward in that they can often be traced but the police often do not have the time or technical facilities to pursue these cases. Usually, we only report the cases where the victim actually fears physical harm otherwise we advise them how to deal with their stalkers using avoidance strategies.

Cost comes into it as well. A person's computer had a Trojan virus and was being attacked at least 20 times a day by people looking to enter her machine. Several of these were in the UK but to pursue this it would have cost well over �1000 and the money was just not in the police budget. Very frustrating for the police and victim both.

4. Can you describe tactics your voluntary 'investigators' use to track down these criminals?

We don't track them down as such, that is the role of the police force. One thing we do track is paedophile activity on bulletin boards and newsgroups, passing the information on to the police or the URLs of child pornography sites to our Cyberangels database which goes directly to law enforcement. Sites operating on free space are shut down within hours; international sites are dealt with by passing the information onto that country via Interpol.

We do have a division in Cyberangels called Cyber Law Enforcement, which is staffed only by serving police officers, and these people do work on several projects. I cannot tell you how they go about it as I am not a member and they do not talk to anyone who is not! (See below for interview with Richard the head of this division.)

I can tell you that all members of Net Patrol are well trained. They will have first completed their Cyberangels induction training; then after having completed a series of tasks, if they are deemed acceptable they have to be invited to join Net Patrol. They are then trained further in cyberlaw, e-mail tracing, profile of victims and harassers etc., and will not allowed to deal with any cases until they have shown that they are competent. Our reputation and credibility with Interpol, FBI and other law enforcement agencies rests on our ability to understand what it is we do and what it is we do NOT do.

Police work is job of the police, we are very firm about this. We are there to pass information along and support them and the victims.

For instance, we have a section that deals with the support of those who are victims of cybercrime and can put them into contact with counsellors. At times the FBI asks our Net Patrol to look out for pictures of missing children in paedophile sites and bulletin boards. That is heart-breaking when that happens.

5. What's your view on the role of law enforcement agencies in the UK and abroad - it seems we are not that well organized here - is it better in the US? What still needs to be done in the UK, do you think? A more coordinated approach perhaps?

Believe it or not, the British Police were amongst the first to begin to deal with cybercrime. We had laws in place to deal with cyberharrassment and child pornography via the Internet than the US! There recent arrests surrounding the Wonderland Club and other high profile cases testify to the dedication and technical talent of the police.

What has been lacking, however, is a coordinated approach at a local level. Previously, if someone wanted to report that someone had infected him or her with a virus they would not know who to report it to? It is not something that most people, let alone most police officers, have had to deal with before. A number of forces have really done well to pull together resources and personnel to be able to tackle cybercrime and many other forces are working towards it. But, like most things, cash is what makes the difference. The government's plan to introduce a new Hi-Tech squad to deal with this is a major step forward. I believe a core number will remain in London and the rest will be distributed around the police authorities making it an effective national squad.

We have been in contact with the home office department dealing with the setting up of this squad to offer our advice as to how there might be an effective interface between the public and police.

The European community has also been working with the US on breaking down perceived national and continental barriers and is working towards some agreement for dealing with cybercrime. The committee's report on cybercrime outlines a possible way forward for countries to aid each other in combating crime. This has to be balanced, of course, with individuals right to free speech, a cause for which Cyberangels stand.

6. Finally, how do you see the future in terms of safety for kids? Any new inventions/devices/approaches that will protect them?

The only thing that will effectively protect children online is education. We need to give them the knowledge and confidence to deal with life online and it's not dissimilar to the advice we give them already. You can have filtering, blocking, monitoring, but at the end of the day, it's the child being able to shout NO!

There are a number of initiatives that are taking off at the moment. I have been in contact with Roger Blamair, the European SchoolsNet manager about recent projects to raise teacher's awareness in schools. Cyberangels is teaming up with a people from Canada and the US to produce an Internet Safety Curriculum for use in schools that can fit in with current ICT teaching. Our WiredKids.org site will be coming out soon which is an alliance of major Internet names that have an interest in promoting children's Internet safety.

It is our sincere hope that organizations like Cyberangels will no longer be needed in the future, but until that day we'll be here 24/365.

Many thanks.

Tim McShane
European Director
Cyberangels